Red Whine

I know it appears that I'm neglecting you. But, remember things are not always as they appear. (Like all those times growing up when I convinced my mom the hickeys on my neck were "from the curling iron". Clumsy me! Eventually, my mom suggested that perhaps I be more careful lest the curling iron think I was easy. ....Oh.)

But, I digress.   

We actually hosted a little costume party for the girls over the weekend and I've been going through all the pictures. And realized 1) we drank alot and 2) we drank alot IN FRONT OF THE CHILDREN.

While I DO NOT agree that there is a fine line between socially drinking and "problem drinking", questions on the subject have been buzzing around my head like a fly I keep trying to swat away.

Am I setting the right example for my daughter by allowing her to see me drink? What does she think when she hears us say that we "NEED a drink"?

Having had a father who was an alcoholic (rarely drunk, but regularly drinking) I remember being disgusted when he would be affectionate and kind when he had a few beers.

I would cringe when my parents and their friends would laugh a little too loud late at night. Or seem a little too free with their demeanors. When their stories would become too enthusiastic and their personalities less recognizable. I remember the feeling of unease well.

Yet, I wonder. Did it make it wrong? Should they have done nothing on a Friday night but sit with me and discuss Ramona's latest adventure? They spent plenty of time taking care of the their families and houses and jobs and responsibilities during the week. Why shouldn't they be free to relax and have a good time?

I still question whether the unease I felt was necessarily a bad thing or just a life lesson. Parents are people too. 

What message would it have conveyed if they sent me away to a friend's house while they "did their drinking"? Would I have assumed alcohol was something to hide? Part of a great adult secret that I would then be anxiously awaiting being let in on?

True, I didn't like it when my parents would drink, but my daughter doesn't like it when Chris and I even SPEAK TO EACH OTHER. Kids rarely like anything that they're not a part of.

I think everyone is reacting to this subject through the filter of their own childhood experiences. I drink maybe three or four times a month and only in social settings. I never drink alone. And? (Insert Emotional Childhood Baggage Alert.) I never touch my daughter when I'm drinking.

She's often playing with her friends when we are drinking with ours, so its rarely an issue. But, for me personally, I don't EVER want her to be disgusted by a hug or a kiss on the head because she thinks it is the alcohol's affection and not mine. I doubt you understand this, but it is a protective response.

So I understand the bloggers/commenters/journalists who have their strong opinions in one direction or another. Everyone seems very specific. "I never drink in front of my kids" "I always drink in front of my kids" "I only drink after six" "I only drink six" "I teach my kids to mix my drinks" "I won't like you if you don't drink" "I won't like you if you do".

For me the bottom line is HOW MUCH and HOW OFTEN. Not whether it is in front of the kids or not. Kids naturally gravitate toward what they don't understand. I'd rather set a good example than no example.

Do you drink in front of your kids? Do you feel bad about it the next day?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In other news, I took (some of) your advice and I asked my neighbor like this:

"I was wondering if Lindsey would like to make some extra money by coming over once a week after school to play with and keep an eye on Savannah so that I can work? Maybe Wednesdays from 4-6? And let's keep the fact that she's being paid between us so delicate feelings aren't hurt".

And then I told Savannah like this:

"Good news! Even though Lindsey is busy most of the week doing big girl stuff, her mommy said she can come over and play with you every Wednesday after school."

Me: 1

Savannah: 1

Lindsey: 1

You guys: Rock

When and IF Savannah ever finds out I'm paying Lindsey, I'm thinking something like this:

"Well, when big girls play with little girls it's the responsibility of the big girl to keep the little girl safe because she's older. So, sometimes the little girl's mommy will pay the big girl to thank her for doing such a good job."

What do you think?

Comments

[Vycki]

The plan for the babysitting playdate sounds pretty good. As for the other question, my son is only nine months old and due to the reflux I have only had two glasses of wine since he was born but both were after he had gone to bed so that I could relax and enjoy it. I have no idea how I will address this issue when he is older.

[Amy H]

I'm going to be backwards here:
#2 - You're the mommy - she's your girl - you know how she works - I think you made the best decision for all of you.

#1 - I'm not a drinker (anymore) because I'm pretty loud and, let's say, whorish, when I get drunk. So I quit drinking when the kids came into the picture. Not completely by choice, I'm just too broke to buy liqour and always have something I have to do that requires me to be sober. On a rare occasion I'll have a few glasses of wine or have a beer and the response from my b9 is "Are you drinking ... BEER!?!?!"
Everyone in my family is an alchie - not an exaggeration at all. My mom has been to treatment and I have huge issues (and memories) - similar to yours. I still hate to be near her when she's fully drunk. My grandparents are every day drinkers but were always responsible and never got all "WHOOHOO" about it.
My hus and I agree that we want the kids to know drinking is okay if everythings kosher - no driving or other responsibilities, be OF AGE, etc. Although, on a beer run for a friend one day, he let our g6 hop in the car and then TURNED AROUND and DROPPED HER OFF at home because he didn't want to take her into the LQ. He's a goon.
I envy the fact that you and your friends all get together like that. Just don't embarass her too bad and don't spend too much time behind the bottle and she won't associate liqour with her nutty mom.

[Amy H]

Damn. Maybe I should get my own blog!

[Paula]

Wow! How thought provoking. I grew up with an alcoholic father. Sounds like he was much like yours, he would be very affectionate and promise me the world when he was drinking. I remember being mortified when my dad drank around my friends. My kids are older, 15 and 18 now and my husband and I never drank much around them, only a few times a year, maybe. But my younger daughter just told me recently that she likes it when I drink because I'm fun then! Nice! I think you just need to be aware of how much you are drinking around your kids and what example you are setting. I don't think drinking all the time is a good example, but never drinking isn't either. Kids need to see their parents as people and they need to see how their parents handle themselves. I always tell my kids that they need to be careful when they drink because you may do and say things that you normally wouldn't do. I've also discussed with them the fact that their grandpa is an alcoholic and they need to be careful. By the way, they hate it when their grandpa drinks! I think you need to find that middle ground and keep discussing it with your kids as they get older.

[Melissa]

I think should she ask, as long as you tell her what you just said, it should be fine. But it may a while before she cares to ask. Yay for Lindsay.

On the drinking....well we are like you, we generaly drink around friends. Or we have a glass of wine with dinner. My kids don't seem to care. They know it's an adult drink and they get to play with all their friends at once, so it's all good. But my parents were the same way, drinking was mostly a social thing, so we never saw anyhting wrong with it. One thing I'll tell you is that if you make it a big deal for her it will be, but since you are not your dad, as long as you make it a social thing, I wouldn't worry. Plus, you are showing her when it is exceptable and that it's a social thing. I can't say I've never made a tiny bit of a fool in front of my kids, but that's life you know? They learn to deal, just like I did.

[jennster]

i do NOT drink around blake.. but i rarely drink as it is. i will, however, extremely rarely have a glass of wine around blake- when we're having dinner. and all is well. i only get stupid if blake is not around

[bobealia]

You are good at asking good questions.
My parents didn't drink because both of them had alchoholic parents. I saw my mother drunk once... and then again a few Christmas's ago and I was just happy that she spared me. She's a mean drunk.
Re: the babysitter/friend. My mom payed a young girl to tutor me in math and she used to talk to me like I was a friend. That was enough for me.

[ginny]

De-lurking (finally!). My husband is a recovering alcoholic (5 years) so neither of us drink. We are both children of alcoholics and I can remember the annoying affection as a child! I still cringe when talking on the phone with my dad and can tell he's been drinking, he's so sweet and loving and promises things he never will do. I am so proud of the fact that g5 has never seen us drink or drunk. At least I know that she will not have similar negative images in her childhood. Remember that alcoholism is a family disease and when you begin to do things as an adult that you never thought you would, you should check yourself. Just my two cents!!!

[Janet a.k.a Wonder Mom]

I drink in front of my daughter. I drink moderately. If I'm driving, I'm not drinking. I think that is the responsible way to act. I think there's nothing wrong with that. Do what you feel comfortable with. Like the ads say, "drink responsibly". I'd rather be a responsible mom than a not alive one.

Just the fact that you are thinking about it makes you a smart, responsible mom.

I also think you handled the older girl job well. You are such a great mom.

[Melanie]

#1 - I drink around my son, but don't get drunk, just have a beer or two. I think it's perfectly normal and healthy, and I don't feel bad about it at all (though I do worry about him seeing his father put away a 6-pack on the weekends...).
#2 - Awesome, and I think you handled the whole thing very well!

[LISA L.]

I ONLY GET TO DRINK ABOUT ONCE A YEAR AND YES ON THAT OCCASSION I DO GET DRUNK. WHEN THEY WERE YOUNGER I DRUNK IN FRONT OF THEM, NOT HAVING A RELIABLE BABYSITTER, BUT THEN I DIDNT GET DRUNK AND THEY HAD KIDS TO PLAY WITH WHILE MOMMY HANG OUT WITH THE ADULTS. NOW THAT THEY ARE A LITTLE OLDER AND HAVE AN OLDER RELIABLE COUSIN THEY GET TO BE BABYSIT AT ANOTHER LOCATION SO THEY DONT SEE THE ADULTS ACT FUNNY. AND YES I FEEL BAD EVERYTIME I DRINK IN FRONT OF THEM OR NOT. I WONDER IF I AM SETTING THE RIGHT EXAMPLE. AND YES I GREW UP WITH ONE PARENT AN ALCOHOLIC FATHER WHO DRUNK TO BE FUNNIER, LOOSIER, THE LIFE OF THE PARTY, MORE ACCEPTED AT SOCIAL GATHERINGS, BUT CAME HOME TO BE A BIGGER JERK. SO I DONT KNOW THE ANSWERS... I JUST KNOW I AM NOT MY FATHER.

[Barbara]

Well, I think when you grow up with an alcoholic (in my case a brother and nearly all aunts, uncles and grandparents), you will always second guess your drinking habits. My parents gave up the alcohol totally after my brother's secret was exposed, so I grew up in a house without any alcohol at all. I always associated it with celebrations like weddings or holidays, which is the only time my parents brought it into the house. For me, that was cool b/c I thought of "grown up" drinking as indulging a few times a year. We did dessert the same way, so I guess I always thought adults limit that stuff naturally. (In high school I drank like a fish and then stopped in college b/c I thought it was "immature") My husband and I go back and forth on this, but for the most part if we drink at home it's a glass of wine in the evening and that's it. But the point is, we'll always overthink it as children growing up with the disease. It's just an is.

[Frema]

Lots of blogs have been talking about this topic lately, but yours is the one that has given me the most pause. I don't have children, but my youngest sister is almost fourteen and my parents have no problems drinking in front her, though they seemed to rarely drink when the rest of us were growing up. It's not unusual for my mother to have a beer at 10:30 in the morning, and it seems every time I come home to visit, a beer is on the table. Last year we all approached her, told her how worried we were about her, and she said she'd cut back but has yet to really live up to her promise. I hesitate to label her an alcoholic, but when spelling it out this way, I don't think there's any other label for it.

I have no idea where I was going with this. My husband and I don't drink but a couple of times a month, so I don't ever see this becoming a problem for us. I think reading this post made me realize I am a little uncomfortable at the idea of mixing kids and alcohol, even if it's done responsibly. I'm not saying it's wrong--just that it makes me uneasy.

[Frema]

I just re-read my first sentence and realized it could be taken the wrong way. Replace "pause" with "food for thought" and we're all good. :)

[LoriB]

To answer your first question, I have a couple of glasses of wine each night (ONLY IF I KNOW I WON"T HAVE TO LEAVE THE HOUSE). My father sounds just like everyone else has said, only affectionate when drinking. He also would drink and drive all the time, with us kids in the car. He thought it was hilarious if we were scared to death and crying from his wreckless driving. I will NEVER EVER do that to my kids, but at the same time, I think that it is okay to have a drink. Also, my kids get hugs and kisses from me every day at any time of the day, so I don't think that they are associating my affections with the alcohol. I don't think that they really care if I am drinking or not, because they know that I would never jeopardize their lives.

To answer your second question. It sounds like you did a wonderful job with getting Lindsey to come over to play with Savannah. I think that you handled that just GREAT!

[LoriB]

I know that what I just said may sound strange, but let me just say that if my kids would tell me that they don't want me to drink anymore, I could stop today and never touch the stuff again. It really makes no difference to me. I just drink a couple of glasses each night to relax, but I could do the same thing with a cup of decaffinated coffee or something else. It's no big deal.

[jes]

I think you've got it figured out - and I bet Savannah will look forward to growing up and keeping younger girls safe. MONEY!

Also, on alcohol: I don't have children yet, so I don't know what I'll say differently when that happens. But I can say this: From my experience (when I was little), my parents drank around me. It wasn't a big deal.

The important thing is to be sure your daugther realizes the effects of alcohol on the body (loss of control, at times, and also! weight gain!) and that drinking or not drinking alcohol does not make you "cool".

Perhaps that was the most important lesson, and more of a lesson in self-confidence and self-esteem: that if I drink, I should do it because I enjoy the beverage, not because I am somehow becoming "socially acceptable" by doing so.

[Amy]

#1 - I totally agree with Jes. I grew up with my dad drinking around me. He was only drunk once, which I totally remember - it was after a party and my mom drove home. My sister and I were not at the party, but we saw him when they got him. Bottom line, I think if you drink responsibly and don't get sloppy, it's a good lesson for the kids. I grew up knowing what alcohol was - for what it was and not taboo - and didn't drink until I was 21. My parents talked the talk and walked the walk when it came to alcohol. As for me, I hope to set the same example. I will drink one (insert alcoholic beverage here, doesn't matter) with dinner on occasion. Not everyday and not always the same thing. My daughters have never and will never see me drunk because I don't get drunk. I'm a total lightweight, so 2 is my limit at parties (if I'm not driving) and I can get up with my girls in the morning without feeling guilty/sick/whatever.

Now, I am dealing with an alcoholic sister-in-law, so these mommy parties make me a little nervous, not for the party themselves, but for what goes on behind closed doors later. My sister-in-law can fool the best of them when she is drunk and no one would even guess the havoc she wreaks later in her house. Very sad.

On a lighter note - nicely done on #2. I am sure the girls will have a great time and L will have some extra spending money. YEAH! : ) I am actually thinking about this for the 12 yo girl across the street that my daughters love! Thanks for the idea!

[Michelle S.]

Well that was a very thought-provoking post Lena! I gave a lot of thought to your questions, and I would have to say that for me, I don't have an issue having a couple of glasses of wine in front of my boys (4 & 9). And I myself have joked that "mama needs a drink" after a hard day, or whatever. I think if the kids see you being responsible when you drink (ie., NOT driving, and not getting silly in front of them) it makes it perhaps a bit less mysterious. I too had an alcoholic father and I have a lot of unpleasant memories associated with alcohol and family...but, that's ancient history (thankfully) and now he is a wonderful dad and grand-dad. I would feel uncomfortable and even guilty if I "tied one on" in front of the kids, but I don't think a cooler in the summer or a glass of wine with friends over dinner is a big deal at all...my two cents!!

Oh, and on the baby-sitter thing - I think you handled that really well. Great stuff Lena - keep it coming! I miss you when you neglect us faithful readers!!! :)

[Lena]

Most of you have brought up a VERY good point that I completely overlooked in my post: drinking and driving.

I admit I have done it on occasion. It's just so hard to draw the line when you want to go get a glass of wine with your girlfriend. I know that any excuse is a sucky one (we're close to home, the kids aren't with us, it's only a couple drinks, it's only once a month) and yet, I can't seem to find a perfect solution.

Thanks for bringing that issue up - one I need to give more thought to.

[Shrinkingmom]

I don't drink at all (never have) and so I can't understand why drinking = "be free to relax and have a good time?"

I wonder if children will observe and internalize the idea that drinking equals relaxing and having fun.

[Virenda]

For personal reasons I, for a long time, never drank in front of my children. Pretty much because I too remember the very awkward, and uneasy feeling I used to have. However, I am NOTHING like my mom, and the "party" situation is NOTHING like it was, so now I don't mind as much.

I too never HUG, or KISS, or anything because I remember the ONLY time my mom was overly affectionate, or kind was when she was drinking.

I think you handled the Lindsey situation beautifully. ;)

[MJ]

Just so ya know Lena, I can relate to your response when your dad gave you affection whilst drinking. The only time it seemed I got a hug or a pat on the back was when alcohol was involved.
I drink 3-4 times a month with friends.

[MJ]

Oh yeah, forgot to congratulate you on acquiring a "SITTER"! Good for you! I know Savannah is in heaven.

[~ Stacy ~]

I tell my kids that they DRIVE me to drink.

Bwahahahahahahahaha!

Just kidding. Sort of.

Okay, seriously... I liked my mother better when she drank. But, my step-father waaaaaay less. Life is life and kids deal. They're tough little buggers.

You are a great mom and I'm certain your daughter loves your hugs whether you're drinking happy juice, or not. ;)

(I wasn't very helpful here, huh?)

Woo Hoo on the playdate sitter! 'Cept "Yikes!" on your post after this one. What a scary moment for you.